Talk:Scripting for Beginners

Style?

Really great tutorial: I found it a very useful intro to GECK scripting, even though I've been programming for decades. Added a section on programming style, but having written it, I'm uncertain it fits here. Should it be on its own page, with each point expanded out to a heading, with examples? Or is it useless filler fluff that everyone knows already, and should be deleted? Am I wrong about any of this? I'm new to GECK scripting, and the stylistic conventions may be different. DewiMorgan 18:26, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm unsure what the best course of action would be. It's short and to the point, which fits the rest of the article. Examples may make it clearer, but increasing the length of the section may cause readers to skip it partially or even entirely.

Maybe Cipscis (the original author of the article) can weight in on this. I'd leave it like this for now.

It's an excellent addition, there's nothing wrong with the content. It's a fairly important topic that shouldn't be missing from a beginner's tutorial.

--Qazaaq 23:10, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

I agree, good practice and "style" is definitely an important aspect of scripting that should be one of the first things introduced. My concern is more focused on how this topic should be included in this article than whether or not it has a place

I think that this information about good practice and "style" might be more effective if, instead of being in a separate section, it is introduced within the relevant sections of the tutorial. For example, as you've mentioned in the "Style" section, information on how to name variables would be more effective if introduced in the "Variables" section than if orphaned from the rest of the page.

Another concern I have is that, due to the nature of this information, it is just as relevant to intermediate and advanced scripters as it is to beginners, and I'd hate for it to be missed because of its location. Perhaps, as you've suggested, a standalone article within the "Modding Practices" category would be a more suitable location, and it could be linked to from this article in a "See Also" section.

One final concern I have is that, because I'm the original author of this tutorial, I'm always going to be a little resistant (even if only subconsciously) when it comes to others altering this article. Of course, as this is a Wiki, such feelings don't belong here, so if anyone feels that my concerns are unfounded and the "Style" section belongs here, just say so. At the moment, any opinion other than mine is bound to be less biased, lol
-- Cipscis 03:30, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Good to hear from you - yes, I was worried that I might offend you by inserting stuff, though I know the admins tried hard to avoid that by removing tagging and such (sorry admins: you can't change human nature! :P). I agree a more integrated approach would probably be better, mentioning each style point in its place, though it'd probably still need a small section pulling the threads together and highlighting the issue of style.

I didn't do that, for the reason you mention: I know most people writing a tutorial would get annoyed by my unstylishly splicing sentences in hither and yon. So, if the section's to be integrated with the rest, I'd rather you did it. Plus, I'm too lazy. Otherwise, if you think splitting it off into a separate page, expanded with examples and covering other areas, as a sort of "scripting 102" page that builds on what they learnt here, then I'm happy to do that work, although probably a little underqualified, newbie that I am. It's your tutorial, so it's your call :P

Is a style page really relevant to advanced scripters? I'm not sure you can become 'advanced' without gaining some sense of elegance. Though I'm also not so sure that your tutorial is only for those that consider themselves beginners: it's currently the best (only!) programmer's reference on this wiki.

I've been playing with writing a little "Scripting reference for programmers" that just gives a very terse summary of syntax, control structures, datatypes, etc for those who already know other languages, and want a running start: but I don't think a discussion on style would fit well in that kind of advanced users' reference. DewiMorgan 18:15, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

How about a middle road? I think information about style is important for a beginner, and should be addressed in this article. However, a long section about style doesn't fit the nature of the article. I'd suggest adding short notes about style to the appropriate sections here, and creating a separate article with a more extensive explanation of different approaches. At first this doesn't have to be more than the section DewiMorgan wrote. Whoever feels like it can expand the article.

--Qazaaq 19:37, 13 April 2009 (UTC)