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Difference between revisions of "Talk:Settings"

Talk:Settings (edit)

Revision as of 10:11, 17 April 2010

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→‎Item Settings category?: go ahead, we could use a hand here
imported>Qazaaq
(→‎Formatting observations: read it all, responding to most of it)
imported>Qazaaq
(→‎Item Settings category?: go ahead, we could use a hand here)
 
(14 intermediate revisions by 6 users not shown)
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= Active discussion =
== Default values ==
I've just been directed to one of the various settings pages from a thread on the official GECK forum, and it looks like a few of the default values aren't correct.  When I went to check the correct default values, I noticed that Fallout3.esm changes that values of many GMSTs.<br /><br />Should the default values listed here be the actual default values of the setting, or the values assigned to the setting when Fallout3.esm is loaded? The latter seems to be the case at the moment, but (at least to me) the former seems to make more sense, as Fallout3.esm is essentially just an official modder's resource.<br />-- [[User:Cipscis|Cipscis]] 00:24, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
:Which page was it? Default values from Fallout3.esm should be used and not the ones in the base GECK with nothing loaded.
:--[[User:SnakeChomp|SnakeChomp]] 01:12, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
::I just checked the thread and page again and it looks like the OP misread the page here - they had confused iLevelUpSkillPointsBase with iLevelUpSkillCount.  The page is [[Derived_Skill_Settings]], but now that I realise that the OP had confused the two GMSTs I see that the default values listed on that page are those set in Fallout3.esm.<br />-- [[User:Cipscis|Cipscis]] 00:03, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
:::"Default" should be the value when Fallout3.esm is loaded. The base entries are essentially meaningless. Knowing where Bethesda put those numbers is far more useful.
:::[[User:DragoonWraith|DragoonWraith]] &middot; [[User talk:DragoonWraith|talk]] &middot; 00:12, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
= Archived discussion =
== Consolidation ==
== Consolidation ==
I've consolidated some settings into setting group pages, redirecting when there were already individual pages.  I highly recommend that we avoid individual pages for settings '''''wherever possible''''', as it creates clutter and makes information hard to correlate. <br>
I've consolidated some settings into setting group pages, redirecting when there were already individual pages.  I highly recommend that we avoid individual pages for settings '''''wherever possible''''', as it creates clutter and makes information hard to correlate. <br>
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:I'd like to add that I think you're doing a great job at shaping the Settings section and documenting the settings!
:I'd like to add that I think you're doing a great job at shaping the Settings section and documenting the settings!
:--[[User:Qazaaq|Qazaaq]] 22:37, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
:--[[User:Qazaaq|Qazaaq]] 22:37, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
::Changing SettingGroup to include name/default/description on one line is possible. I was going for maximum consistency with the Setting template, but I had expected a discussion like this to come up, so I could get feedback.
::I don't think SettingGroup must be used on "named groups" as Qazaaq calls it, however. I don't consider the "movement settings" page an abuse (at all) - though the template needs to be fixed to not lower-case the first letter in such circumstances. But I think it's good to use the template as much as possible.
::I do agree that Setting could, and should, be used multiple times in a page - the only serious change necessary would be to remove the Bc tag, but that can easily be added to the pages themselves.
::I very much agree that individual pages are unnecessary and undesirable - in fact, I almost requested that you convert certain groups of settings to a single page using SettingGroup, but since you're running the Setting show here (and doing an excellent job, I might add), I figured it best to let you do your thing.
::Anything I can do to help with any of the changes you propose, let me know, because I think you're right on all of it.
::[[User:DragoonWraith|DragoonWraith]] &middot; [[User talk:DragoonWraith|talk]] &middot; 03:14, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
:::I added a new template to document setting groups in a way that appeals to me and I am using it on the [[Mine Settings]] page as a demonstration. It uses three distinct templates: one [[Template:SettingGroupHeader]] to give the name of the group, any number of [[Template:SettingGroupSetting]] to document each setting in the group, and one [[Template:SettingGroupFooter]] to end the group.
:::For Example:
<pre>{{SettingGroupHeader
|Name = Foo Settings
}}
{{SettingGroupSetting
|Name        = fFoo1
|Default    = 0
|Description = foo
}}
{{SettingGroupSetting
|Name        = fFoo2
|Default    = 0.2
|Description = foo
}}
{{SettingGroupFooter}}</pre>
{{SettingGroupHeader
|Name = Foo Settings
}}
{{SettingGroupSetting
|Name        = fFoo1
|Default    = 0
|Description = foo
}}
{{SettingGroupSetting
|Name        = fFoo2
|Default    = 0.2
|Description = foo
}}
{{SettingGroupFooter}}
:::I like doing it this way because it is simpler to implement the templates (they are all very small), it is trivial to reorder the settings within the group as you don't have to change a lot of numbers (Setting1Default -> Setting9Default) and it is easy to move settings into and out of the group as all you need to change is the name of the template being used (use the Setting template instead of SettingGroupSetting).
:::I'm not married to the formatting of the table that is in use right now, namely the colors being used on the heading row (Setting, Default, Description). It also seems a bit weird that the master table header that has the group name is smaller than the heading that names the columns.
:::I actually have a question about templates, is it possible for the [[Template:Setting]] template to be conditionalized so that it results in different html when it is used within a <nowiki>{{SettingGroupHeader}} ... {{SettingGroupFooter}}</nowiki> section? That way it is simple to move setting documentation into and back out of the group as you don't have to rename the template being used. Its not a big deal, but it would be awesome if we can do that.
:::I plan on changing the pages that currently use [[Template:SettingGroup]] to use the new template, that is assuming that people don't hate the new design behind the template (the fact that it is now 3 separate templates instead of one big monster template). We can refine the look and feel of the new template as we go. I already notice quirks in the example I used here; the width of the "Default" column should be constrained.
:::--[[User:SnakeChomp|SnakeChomp]] 05:15, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
::::I happened to discover by chance that stringing several of the (fixed) [[Template:Setting]] templates one after another happens to create what looks to be one continuous table very similar to the [[Template:SettingGroup]] template. Compare this example with the example of the new setting group template I made shown above.
<pre>{{Setting
|Name = fAutoAimMaxDegrees
|Description = Desc 1
|Default = Def 1
}}
{{Setting
|Name = fAutoAimMaxDegrees3rdPerson
|Description = Desc 2
|Default = Def 2
}}
{{Setting
|Name = fAutoAimMaxDegreesMelee
|Description = Desc 3
|Default = Def 3
}}</pre>
{{Setting
|Name = fAutoAimMaxDegrees
|Description = Desc 1
|Default = Def 1
}}
{{Setting
|Name = fAutoAimMaxDegrees3rdPerson
|Description = Desc 2
|Default = Def 2
}}
{{Setting
|Name = fAutoAimMaxDegreesMelee
|Description = Desc 3
|Default = Def 3
}}
::::I think thats really spiffy. Perhaps we don't even need templates for group settings if we can just do something like this?
::::--[[User:SnakeChomp|SnakeChomp]] 07:32, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::Individual page benefits (and I mean for ''every'' setting):
:::::*Good for settings that fit into multiple categories. In Oblivion, the obvious example was [http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/FMagicDurMagBaseCostMult fMagicDurMagBaseCostMult] which affected everything magicka including potion strength, spell strength, enchantments, vendor prices, etc.
:::::*Easier and clearer to edit - an edit will only be about that setting instead of a group of settings. The talk page will only be about that setting.
:::::*Allows us to implement the page information elsewhere, and on several other pages.
:::::*Very clear when a setting's effect is unknown.
:::::Negatives:
:::::*Annoying to open and navigate multiple pages
:::::*Quite a few settings don't mean anything alone (i.e., Base/Mult combos)
:::::*Have to make/upkeep 100s of pages
:::::To me, those negatives far outweigh the positives. So, where do we put them - formulas, group pages... well, actually, we already have a [[Settings|Page]] :P Like the [http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/List_of_Functions CS List of Functions page], we can place all of the settings here in several tables, such as
<nowiki>=== Auto Aim Settings ===</nowiki>
[[Auto Aim Settings]] are used to configure the auto-aim feature.
{{Setting
|Name        = fAutoAimMaxDistance
|Default    = 1800.000000
|Description = Configures the working distance of Auto Aim in 1st person mode. A red cursor while targeting a hostile character indicates that auto aim will guide your shots towards the targeted body part.
}}
{{Setting
|Name = fAutoAimMaxDegrees
|Default = bar
|Description = foo
}}
:::::This will make this page a better list - the settings will have enough information to explain what they are without the need to go to another page. Also, this will allow us to be more flexible with the pages we use - a formula, group, or both, and any other relevant page can be linked in a short paragraph, much as we're doing now. Finally, the specific pages will no longer have to fill the role of explaining each setting - they have already been explained over here.
:::::And now, if you'll excuse me - I'm not sure how I'm still awake (but hopefully I am).
:::::--[[User:Haama|Haama]] 08:44, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
I think it's easier if the settings are categorized in a few (or more) groups. Most settings don't have a lot to do with others, putting them all on one page wouldn't be very helpful. I don't think we have to list all settings on the settings page even. Listing the group names should be sufficient.
<br/>--[[User:Qazaaq|Qazaaq]] 18:15, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
== Item Settings category? ==
The following settings are listed as "Unused" and I think it'd be good to see them fit into the wiki under something a bit more helpful, perhaps "Item Settings"?
'''fDamageToArmorPercentage''', '''fDamageToWeaponEnergyMult''', '''fDamageToWeaponGunMult''', '''fDamageToWeaponLauncherMult''' and '''fDamageToWeaponMeleeMult'''.
These all affect the durability of items and how fast items take durability 'damage' until they break. A lower than default value will make items last longer, whereas a value higher than default will cause them to break sooner. A value of 0.000000 is accepted, and causes items to never break.
:The settings listed under '''"Unused"''' are actually unused by the game. These are listed as '''"Uncategorized"''', because no one has categorized them yet.
:There are a lot of settings that could fit the category "Item Settings". I'd make "Durability Settings" subheader, or something else more specific. Feel free to move these settings under their own heading. And all other settings you wish to categorize, all help here is appreciated.
:--[[User:Qazaaq|Qazaaq]] 14:11, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
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