Editing Talk:Bethsoft Tutorial Layout

==About the Original Author==
{{User:Dbrigner}}
{{break}}

== COC Vault 74? ==
I have been trying to get any of the mods load (I do not get errors when I specify which files to load) so that I could walk through and check for problems etc, I cannot seem to get the game to run any modules using the COC MODNAME command, I get a syntax error on line one, script not compiled and run error. Am I missing something here?

:'''You should not COC to your plugin name.  You should COC to your cell name.  If you followed this tutorial it would be "COC Vault74a".'''
:--[[User:Dbrigner|Dbrigner]] 15:42, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


Sadly I still cannot get my cell, nor the layout example to run and I do not know why, could it be a vista administrator issue and if it is how can I fix it? Thanks Cyris

Whenever I type in COC vault74a it doesn't say anything and closes off the console back to the game. Is there something I'm doing wrong? It does the same when i type in coc vault 108. Can someone help? [[User:R!s!ng-Dev!l|R!s!ng-Dev!l]] 17:30, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

I was wondering if perhaps some more information on the COC Marker should be added. I saw the block quote on the main page about it, but it was difficult as a new user to locate the actual marker. Perhaps putting in a path for it or maybe a small paragraph would be appropriate considering how critical of an element it is for testing would be in order? Let me know what you think before I do anything.
:--[[User:CobaltLion|CobaltLion]] 20:59, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm having similar issues, it's not about permission though, I'm not on Vista.  As far as I can tell I've followed all the instructions given in the "My First Vault" tutorial series.  The esp is checked and supposedly loads however I can neither "COC Vault74a" nor does the actual door/entrance area appear in "Vault74aExterior" (the renamed Wasteland) in game.  Was some small, yet vital piece of information omitted?
:--[[Nix-nox]] 06:30, 10 January 2010

== Create New Object? ==

I've been digging around for an object I can use to widen the gallery and can't seem to find one.  Are there any ceiling only room objects anywhere?  Also, will there eventually be a tutorial to cover creating new room objects? [I know, yes and I'll keep looking if there already is one].

:'''There are no pieces to widen the two story pieces of the vault galley.  It was designed to only be two tiles wide in the middle part.'''  
:'''Making new pieces is a whole different skill set.  This is not something that's done in the GECK.  This is done with 3D creation tools like 3DS Max, or Maya.'''
:--[[User:Dbrigner|Dbrigner]] 15:42, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


: You could take the VRmMidR01 piece, and remove the top part of that piece in Photoshop or whatever you would use to do that sort of thing, I think that would be the easiest solution for you.
--[[User:Cyris90|Cyris90]] 10:09, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

== Piece Question ==
On the other side of the galley area on the top floor, is there supposed to be a piece that matches up with the round window at the end of the galley so you can see out into the galley from that room? I can't seem to find one that will fit. I have VRmWallR02 there at the moment, but it seems I need a similar piece but with a small round window.

:No, it's a flat window. Only the large "overseer office" pieces that are 9x9 fits the round window, I noticed. /[[User:Mirar|Mirar]] 09:03, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
:--[[User:Wjousts|Wjousts]] 04:29, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

:: I think you just have the wrong wall piece, the proper peice that has a matching piece for the other side of the wall has an oval window, not round
--[[User:Cyris90|Cyris90]] 21:24, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

=== Deleted Piece ? ===

:I'm building this area now, however I have an issue, the Piece "VGalleyRailingBridgeR01" cannot be inserted as it says "Object has been deleted", this happens when I drag it from the Object Window into the Render Window, and when I do a CTRL + F to find the item, it doesn't even show up.  Advice?

[[User:Daworm|Daworm]] 02:23, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

== COC Marker Problem ==
You can only place one COC Marker per cell.  If you try to place a second one it won't work.  Use the "Filter" text box above the object list and type "COC" and it should show you if you already have a COC Marker in your cell or not.<br>
-Dbrigner

Further explanation needed on how to place a Coc Marker I've tried and I've tried, can't get it to place...<br>
-KangarooSoap

I can't place one either. Actually, I can't even find any ''COCMarker''. I can find a ''COCMarkerHeader'', which probably is the right thing to use, but I can't place those anyway. :p<br>
-[[User:Mirar|Mirar]] 17:03, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
::Solved it by copy-pasting a ''COCMarkerHeader'' from another location. 
::--[[User:Mirar|Mirar]] 20:11, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
:::'''Yes, you ''could'' copy and paste one from a different cell.  You are only supposed to have one ''COCMarkerHeading'' per cell.  When you are having trouble putting one in your cell double check the cell (by using the Filter text box above the Objects list) to make sure you don't already have one.'''
:::--[[User:Dbrigner|Dbrigner]] 15:42, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
::::Same problem. Definitely not able to place COCMarkerHeader by dragging and dropping from the Object window. Definitely no other COCMarkerHeaders present in cell (used the Filter text box as described and scrolled list to be sure). Had the same problem in the CS with NorthMarkers, and used the same technique to solve it: Ctrl-D to duplicate the tile that you want to place the COCMarkerHeader on and use Ctrl-F to find and replace the duplicate tile with the COC marker. [[User:Truant|Truant]] 21:22, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

::::Same problem for me.  Cannot drop a COCMarkerHeader by dragging from the Object Window, had to copy and paste from another cell.  However, now upon loading my tutorial package I am given an error message saying I have more than one CoCMarker when only one shows up In the cell view Pane.  Any assistance on this would be appreciated.--[[User:Slackee|Slackee]] 16:12, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

== Possible Grid Problems? ==

I am on the stairway step, but my editor seems to position the stairs in a different place to the images provided. Here is what mine looks like:

[http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/8108/stairproblemoj4.jpg Click for Image]

:Is this a problem tutorial-side, or is just me being dumb in some way?

:-[[User:Nextil|'''<u>Nextil</u>''']] - [[User_talk:Nextil|(talk)]] 22:10, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

:I solved this by changing the grid resolution to 128, but this is still a problem, unless I'm missing something.

:-[[User:Nextil|'''<u>Nextil</u>''']] - [[User_talk:Nextil|(talk)]] 22:14, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

::'''I've changed this in the tutorial.  There may be times that you need to drop the grid snap down to fit certain objects in.  You can even work on a 128 or 64 grid snap for the whole tutorial if you want.  The basic thing that we want to get across is that you should work on some sort of snap almost all the time while doing your basic layout.

::[[User:Dbrigner|Dbrigner]] 15:42, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

:::I'm experiencing a problem with my grid; namely, it seems to be crooked. I'm working my way through the Vault 74 tutorial (I'm on the traps/terminals/etc portion, but this problem has been cropping up since about just after I finished initial layout, and even earlier in a different form). When I place kits in the render window and snap them to the grid, they do not align with any of the kits I already have in place (the entire Vault 74 layout up to this point). I noticed that even two brand-new kits (dragged from the object window) did not line up with each other; no matter what I do they will never line up. Then I realized that the pieces were, in fact, moving in regular unit distances on all three axes, but they were behaving as though the grid itself were rotated about 10-15 degrees from its original orientation (as it was when I started the tutorial). For this reason, I also cannot get regular angles for my placed objects when snapping to angle, and I am altogether having a lot of trouble with adding the locked loot room with the associated wall terminal (as described in the tutorial [http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/Bethsoft_Tutorial_Non-NPC_population]). One additional concern this brings up is that any of my existing kits now cannot be moved without permanently destroying all alignments with its neighbors. I'm handcuffed until I can figure out a way to fix the grid alignment, ideally snapping the grid itself to my existing (picture-perfect) kits. If anyone could help me out, I'd be much obliged.
:::[[User:Gyro8891|Gyro8891]] 19:38, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

::::Have you read the notes below under 'Rotating...'? If you place a tile without using snap to angle, none of the pieces you place after will tile properly because your first tile is not at a regular angle. You can correct this by snapping to angle your first piece and then aligning the other pieces to the corrected tile. When I start work on a new interior, I always double-click the tile and set the first tile's x,y,z coordinates and angles to 0. You can reset the angles by pressing the 'Reset' button. [[User:Truant|Truant]] 13:37, 14 August 2010 (UTC)


If the "My first vault" tutorial mentions to set the Snap Grid to 256 and Snap Angle to 45, How come this Screenshot shows a different setting? Confused me, as when I drag the first Static Reference Object's copy sideway so it's snap tot he original Static object "perfectly"(as asked in the tutorial) well,  it doesn't. It goes in an upper-right diagonal direction... -chuckles-

:'''You can use anything from a 256 grid to 32 if you need to.  It's up to you.  Most of this tutorial layout can be done on a 256 grid, if you start with that, but some pieces will require dropping to 128 or 64.'''
:[[User:Dbrigner|Dbrigner]] 16:12, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


I'm having trouble with the cavetransvault piece. No matter how I place it or what Grid Snap setting I use, either a. it clips  b. it leaves a gap  or c. both   with the vault door frame thingy. Am I doing something wrong? Or am I just being to much of a perfectionist?

--[[User:7th Keeper|7th Keeper]] 07:39, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think it is supposed to clip a little... mine does and it ends up looking quite nice in game.  Sometimes you may find that a little clipping is actually the perfect way to make something look right.  A fridge looks better sunken a little into the floor than floating a little above it for instance.
:[[User:Pgrandstaff|Pgrandstaff]] 01:03, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

== Rotating: Cells does not align properly ==

When I right click on a cell, it can be rotated. However, when I rotate a cell, sometimes it does not align to the other cell properly and thus making spaces and overlays. See this picture. How can I solve cell not being aligned properly problems?

[http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q232/MrNoHelp/Vaultcorridor.jpg Click for Image]
<br/>--[[User:FuzzMaster|FuzzMaster]] 00:09, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

:Use '''Snap to Angle (Ctrl-Q)''':  [[Image:Snap_To_Angle.jpg]]
:--[[User:Qazaaq|Qazaaq]] 00:22, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

::I tried the Snap to Angle icon...I did not help...Some cells simply cannot align together. I made a video to demonstrate my problem in action. It is not only problem with junctioning 4 way hall with 1 way hall. This problem occurred in other combinations as well.

::[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-1ISvyPK-4 Click to watch] 

::Suggestions, anyone?

::--[[User:FuzzMaster|FuzzMaster]] 11:55, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

:::Please indent once more than the comment you're replying to and sign with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> (this will be replaced with your name, and the time/date you posted the comment).
:::As for the problem. Pieces you placed already and are rotated without anglesnap still won't fit. You'll have to either duplicate a piece that's rotated correctly or drag and drop a new piece from the [[Object Window]]. The latter will only work if the pieces you're trying to align to are not rotated ''without'' anglesnap.
:::--[[User:Qazaaq|Qazaaq]] 12:24, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

:::I too think that the pieces you're using has been rotated (freely) before, and then it makes it really hard to fit them again. Drag a new piece from the object list and make sure you always have snap to angle on when working with pieces. 
:::--[[User:Mirar|Mirar]] 09:42, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

:::'''You can reset a references orientation quickly by double clicking the reference then clicking the "Reset" button on the top right (In the "3D Data" window).  Once this is done if you turn on Angle Snap you shouldn't have any problem rotating and snapping pieces together.'''
:::--[[User:Dbrigner|Dbrigner]] 20:49, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

== Deleting NavMesh ==

The very first time I tried this tutorial I successfully deleted the NavMesh first time without an issue. I didn't save what I was doing and closed my program. Coming back the second time, I cannot remove the NavMesh, I have saved / reopened / deleted / re-duplicated and even re-installed GECK still without any luck.
Advice?
[[User:Daworm|Daworm]] 04:06, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
:Got it, double clicked on the NavMesh entry and then did the remove. Kinda annoying that. [[User:Daworm|Daworm]] 04:10, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

== Rotating a door marker ==
I have had one hell of a time trying to figure out the command for this.  You cannot open up a properties menu for a door marker, so how do you do it?  I know that the "Z,X,Y" commands allow you to move objects more easily, is there a command for rotating objects?  I canNOT find it when searching the GECK[[User:Kenji 03|Kenji 03]] 16:25, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

:In the Oblivion CS it was "hold down the axis key and drag right-click". Pretty sure that's what it is in the GECK, too.
:[[User:DragoonWraith|DragoonWraith]] &middot; [[User talk:DragoonWraith|talk]] &middot; 19:05, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

== Missing pipes above the railings ==
Maybe I was the only one to notice this, as I had never paid much attention in game, but 3/4 of the pipes which are part of the Galley Railing package do not connect to anything on the ends. The VGalleyEnd - LR01 and RR01 - do not have this upper pipe, and the windowed options only have this pipe on the upper right. This leaves a free-standing pipe (visible in the normal game, as I visited vault 108's galley to see if it had the same) which is killing my OCD. It took some time to locate the correct piece to end the double pipes on the upper north floor of the galley. This should probably be noted in the text.. since it was a difficult find.
Are these free-floating pipes part of the charm, or unintentional? And could someone direct to info on finding these textures for editing, since I'm frothing to make a free-floating pipe section to fix the look?
Side note - Overlapping a regular rail bit doesn't work out. Try it and see for yourself the magic it creates. [[User:Niphty|Niphty]] 05:19, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

== Unnamed Objects ==

I would just like to add the unnamed object names not listed on this picture
[[Image:Overall_Layout01.jpg|thumb|650px|center|The Cave Entrance and Utility portions of Vault 74.]]
As mentioned in the tutorial, the unmarked door node is '''VURmWallExSmR01''', '''VURmBoothWallWindowR01''' works well for the booth wall, stairs are '''VURmSunkenStairsR01'''.

The piece to the '''''right''''' of '''VURmMidR01''' is called '''VURmColR01''' and the wall section '''''below''''' that is called '''VURmWall03R'''.

Also to the '''''left''''' of '''VURmBoothWallWindowR01''' is '''VURmBoothExitR01''' and the wall '''''behind''''' that (''which is duplicated'') is called '''VURmBoothWallR01'''.

Took me a while to figure that out lol --[[User:Jenkins|Jenkins]] 15:38, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

==Asterisk appearing in cell name==

When I copied the cell as the tutorial suggested I renamed it.  I noticed next to the renamed cell it had an asterisk * by the name, for my example I named is "vault201", but in the world list it is shown as "vault201 *".  

I have edited permissions and always run it as an administrator, but the asterisk remains.  I have place a coc marker too.  I check the appropriate box in the DATA section of the launcher, and launched.  I can't travel to my hallway to check it out.  Any idea why I am getting an *?<br />-- [[User:Kevonfall|Kevonfall]] 00:04, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

:The asterisk indicates which forms have been altered in the active file.<br /><br />P.S. Please sign your posts in talk pages with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>.  This inserts the date and your username, which makes discussions much easier to read.<br />-- [[User:Cipscis|Cipscis]] 02:11, 24 April 2010 (UTC)


[[User:Kevonfall|Kevonfall]] 02:29, 24 April 2010 (UTC) Okay after a couple more tries I figured out the asterisk isn't a problem at all, but I needed to check "floating files" on the loader when loading my mod.  Couple of loads without it and then with it checked makes me think that is all it was all along.

==Missing Pieces to Gallery Section==

Is it just me or are some of the pieces needed missing? I am assuming that the first piece as you go into the gallery from the hall will be '''VGalleryWallExSmR01''' but I can only find the non-rusty version of that piece and it looks out of place to the pieces around it. I also cannot seem to find pieces for the corners of the gallery with or without the small exit. If there is any way that [[User:Jenkins|Jenkins]] who clarified the Vault Door section of the plan above could do the same for the gallery it would be very useful.

Thanks. [[User:Sifesboran|Sifesboran]] 13:17, 23 August 2010

== New Vegas ==
I cannot find a way to get to the vault I created while playing New Vegas; I can successfully load the plugin. It seems that for Fallout 3 you select a menu item in the cell window called "encounter zone" (i.e. world\cells\Vault 74*\cellwindow>"interior data" tab>"encounter zone" menu: vault74) Can anyone tell me the necessary alterations that must be made in order to use this plugin in New Vegas?
--[[User:Tfranich|Tfranich]] 19:20, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Well if you've saved it as a .esp in the New Vegas Data folder and have it selected, either in the game launcher or in FOMM then it should work when you type COC <vaultname> in the console. Without the < or >. Make sure to include the 'a' after the Vault number. [[User:Aidy|Aidy]] 13:37, 21 July 2011 (EDT)

== Can't find a piece ==

I can't find the piece needed for the second overall layout, just after the door created in the beginning tutorial ([[http://i.imgur.com/zfQ0OUl.jpg this]] piece.) Can anyone please give me its name? -([[User:The Iron Turtle|The Iron Turtle]] ([[User talk:The Iron Turtle|talk]]) 06:39, 3 February 2013 (EST))
@@ Line 10: / Line 10: @@
-::This was a permissions issue, solved by setting the run as administrator checkbox on the fallout3exe. and fallout3launcher.exe
+Sadly I still cannot get my cell, nor the layout example to run and I do not know why, could it be a vista administrator issue and if it is how can I fix it? Thanks Cyris
---[[User:Cyris90|Cyris90]] 10:06, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 Whenever I type in COC vault74a it doesn't say anything and closes off the console back to the game. Is there something I'm doing wrong? It does the same when i type in coc vault 108. Can someone help? [[User:R!s!ng-Dev!l|R!s!ng-Dev!l]] 17:30, 23 February 2009 (UTC)